Troubleshooting Classroom Management with Heidi and Emily of Second Story Window

Sara
Hey there, happy Monday and welcome back. Today on the podcast, we are taking a break from talking about literacy, and we are switching gears to something that might be just as important if not, maybe a little bit more. And that is classroom management.

Sara
Here’s the thing. It really doesn’t matter how amazing your literacy lesson plans are, or how engaging your workstation activities are, if your classroom management systems aren’t working for you and your students, then your students aren’t going to master whatever amazing objectives you had planned for them.

Sara
And knowing that it is the end of February, we are like smack dab in the middle of second semester, I would have to guess that it’s pretty safe to say that some of your classroom management procedures aren’t working as well as they once did at the start of the year.

Sara
So to help you give your classroom management systems a little bit of some mid-year love, I invited Heidi and Emily, who are the hosts of the Teacher Approved podcast on to share their process for how to troubleshoot any tricky classroom management areas. So if you feel like you have part of your instructional day, or if there is some part of your classroom management system that could use a little tune up, then this podcast episode is really going to help you out.

Sara
Heidi and Emily love sharing research based and teacher approved strategies, meaning you know, they’re going to work for you to help you become a more efficient and effective teacher. And I can guarantee that the tips that they share in today’s episode are things that you can start using today.

Sara
So enjoy this conversation. And be sure to go check out their podcast, the Teacher Approved podcast if you’re looking for another education show to add into your weekly lineup of podcasts.

Sara
Hi, Emily and Heidi. Welcome to the show. Let me just say I’m so excited to have you guys. You guys are my first like double podcast guests.

Emily/Heidi
We’re excited to be your first very honored.

Sara
Well, thank you so much for coming. In case my audience is not familiar with you, can you guys go ahead and just give a brief introduction of who you are, what you do, share a little bit about the backstory of the Second Story Window and your Teacher Approved podcast.

Emily/Heidi
So we are Second Story Window. We are two sisters. And we started out as teachers teaching both teaching second grade at neighboring schools. And then Emily was moving to different state and we knew we really enjoyed working together. And so we wanted to find a way to continue that partnership.

Emily/Heidi
And so we launched Second Story Window, creating products for teachers that we were making for our own classrooms. And it’s just kind of grown from there. And we started our podcast. Oh, what, like 9-10 months ago? Yeah, yeah. So we’re just stepping into that.

Sara
I love it. And I was gonna say I’m glad that you guys are in like the podcasting space. Now I I love my podcast, I think is like one of my favorite things that I’ve done like to support teachers. So I hope you guys are enjoying it just as much.

Sara
And so fun that you guys were like teachers together. I started off as a second grade teacher and my mom’s a teacher, but like nobody else in my family like my siblings, or cousins or anybody. And I’m like, Oh, it would have been so fun to have like a teacher bestie who’s also in my family. So you guys are so lucky.

Emily/Heidi
It was amazing because I didn’t have a lot of team support at my first school. And so she was sort of like my team member even though she wasn’t at the same school. She really helped me get through that.

Sara
That’s awesome. And are you guys are you guys in the classroom now or are you guys both out of the classroom supporting teachers full time?

Emily/Heidi
We are out of the classroom, at this moment. We taught preschool together for several years up into the pandemic. And then obviously that required some shifting and so we put a pin in our preschool plans. Oh, that was a tongue twister. And we don’t have real set plans going forward. But at the moment we’re just focusing on helping teachers right now.

Sara
I love it call a teaching preschool that is like I never went any lower than first grade. And I always think like if you are a preschool teacher or a kindergarten teacher, there’s like a special place in heaven for you because that requires a level of patience that so many people don’t have.

Emily/Heidi
I think first grade would be way harder than preschool, so props to you.

Sara
It’s always so funny too there’s just like there’s certain grades or levels that people just like gravitate towards. And you know, like some people love the older kids. Some people love the younger kids. So it works out great that there’s enough space in education for everyone.

Emily/Heidi
Yes. And truly, I do think second grade is the actual best grade ever.

Sara
I started as a second grade teacher, I loved it. And then one year, my principal, like literally in October, he was like, I need you to teach fourth grade in like two weeks. And I was not excited about that move. But you know, it’s kind of like when your principal is like, hey, you need to move like, I didn’t really have an option.

Sara
But, I ended up like falling in love with the big kids and like, found my sort of like, forever home in fourth grade. But I do have that like, soft spot for second grade. They are such a fun age.

Emily/Heidi
Yes, they really are. But fourth graders can do a lot of cool stuff that second graders can’t do.

Sara
Absolutely. Okay, so we are going to talk all about classroom management today, which I am super excited about. I mostly talk about literacy and reading on my podcast, but I know like, I mean, there’s so many things that teachers want and need support and encouragement with. And I know classroom management is such an important topic.

Sara
So I’m super excited that y’all are willing to come on and just share some of your classroom management, you know, tips and experiences with my audience. And I know this is something that you guys talk about on your podcast. And I’m always a little bit curious, because I at least for me, I think back to like my first year teaching, and I was like the epitome of like a hot mess sxpress.

Sara
Like, is throwing chairs, books, like it was it was not a managed classroom. And I obviously grew a lot in that area. But I’m curious, like if y’all could share a little bit about your own personal experience with classroom management and how it became to be like something that you guys want to support and encourage teachers with?

Emily/Heidi
Well, I think, I don’t know, I think every first year teacher just kind of has that, like, what is happening moment. They didn’t prepare me for this. And I definitely had that like the first year I was just like, okay, man, if this is working, I don’t mmm, you don’t know what to do. Yeah. And there were some, you know, some well meaning teachers at my school, but none of them were like, super great at being helpful.

Emily/Heidi
So after that first year, I did what I had to do, because I old enough that I was teaching in the early 2000s. And the option was to find books, yes, right. Like, it’s not like I could turn to podcasts or teacher blogs, or take a course.

Emily/Heidi
So I just started reading books. And one thing that I realized early on was that I needed to find resources that aligned with my philosophy of how a classroom should run. And I hadn’t really taken that time to figure out like, what works for what what do I think a classroom should be like, you know.

Emily/Heidi
So I think, you know, that was kind of key in identifying my philosophy of, you know, we’re protecting the dignity of the child. And creating a space where learning is possible. Like, that is what the ultimate goal of classroom management is, is to facilitate the ability to teach and for kids to learn.

Emily/Heidi
And so kind of just trying to refine that over the years, and then all the years of just, you know, putting it into practice, and like, that doesn’t work with this class, I need something new, you know, it’s just trial and error, because you have new kids every year.

Sara
I love that. And I mean, even thinking about like, back to my first year I was like, I don’t know, if I thought about, like my own philosophy. I’ve thought about my philosophy on teaching, for sure. And especially with things like literacy, and you know what, you know, like, that type of stuff, but like actually thinking about like, what is your personal belief on how your classroom should be run?

Sara
I feel like that is such an important question for teachers to consider. And I bet most teachers don’t ever pause to think about like, does their classroom management plan align with like, how they believe their class should be managed and what they want that space to look like. So I love that you had that like epiphany early on in your career.

Sara
Clearly, you’ve benefited from it and then all the teachers that you you know, connect with and support as well. Okay, before we get too far into the conversation, could y’all just to sort of like put us all on the same page? Because I feel like classroom management is like one of those like, it’s a big category.

Sara
So can you kind of just explain, like, what does that what does that term classroom management mean? And like, sort of give a little bit background as to why it is so essential for the success of any classroom for a teacher to like, focus on classroom management.

Sara
So I think the default with class management is to assume that it equals behavior management. But that is really isn’t the full picture. Class management also includes behavior management, that’s definitely part of it, but it’s such a broader umbrella.

Emily/Heidi
So class management, the way we think about it, it includes things like your routines, your procedures, your transitions. It includes how you want your students to relate to you, and how you want them to relate to each other. And you know, as teachers, we have all gone into education, I’m going to assume all of us, because we want to help children learn.

Emily/Heidi
And really it is the classroom management piece that makes learning and teaching possible. We have to have a space where any of that can happen and that is what classroom management allows us to have.

Sara
Yeah, it’s I think we tend to focus on like the behavior side of it so often, but like there are so many of these other elements and aspects that need just as much of our time and attention if we want to create that space where it’s like, okay, we want students to learn. So it’s not just about the behavior, it’s about the routines, and the expectations and communication and all of that stuff as well.

Sara
When I’m doing these interviews, I always like put myself in the perspective of like the teacher listening. But like, I know, for me, when I like was teaching, I felt like I would give a lot of like, time and attention to like classroom management at the start of the year. You know, it’s like, okay, what are the expectations that we’re going to communicate? What are the routines we’re going to practice and like, the year would always start off great.

Sara
And then like, it would sort of go downhill a little bit. And you know, here we are, like, in the middle of February. And I know for a lot of teachers, this is the time of year where it’s like classroom management starts to feel like hard and heavy.

Sara
And even if they had like, really great expectations, and routines and behavior was great at the start of the year, I feel like for whatever reason, like the middle of the year comes and like things just start to fall apart. Like, why is it that classroom management can feel and be so much more challenging in the middle of the school year than when it was at the start of the year?

Emily/Heidi
Yeah that is such a good question. Because I think we’ve all been there in that midpoint of the year of, oh, dear, how did I get here? And the thing is, it’s because everyone’s gotten so comfortable, that’s a good thing, that our class has just gotten so used to each other, that we’ve gotten a little lax about the expectations that we set at the beginning of the year. And the students have gotten lax on meeting those expectations.

Emily/Heidi
And so it just gets a little hard to know how to sharpen it up when you’re when you’re in such a comfortable place. And so it can feel like we’re already so far into the year, I have to just ride this wave out until the end of the year, because it’s too far into the year to make changes now. But that is the mistake that we make to think I can’t change it now.

Emily/Heidi
You absolutely can course correct mid year, and you will reap so many benefits through the rest of the year, if you just take some time in the middle of the year, when you notice that things have gotten off course, and get it back where you want it to be. And things will go so much more smoothly the rest of the year, and you won’t spend the rest of the year going, Hey, that’s not what we do with our pencils, you know, because you’ll get everybody back on track. And you’ll save yourself a lot of time and effort if you just pause and intentionally put in some time mid year when you see the problems happening.

Sara
I love that because I think so often if teachers are like my classroom management is falling apart, they can view that as like almost like I’m failing as a teacher or like, that’s a bad thing. But I love just that perspective shift of like, you know what, actually, this just means that your class is comfortable. Like, that’s not a bad thing.

Sara
But that also doesn’t mean that we should just forget about all of our management and you know, coast until the end of the year, right. And for me, I knew that like, okay, the whole idea of like, you got to slow down before you can speed up. And I think that can be like hard for teachers where it’s like, okay, we’re in the middle of the year, we still have a couple months to go yet.

Sara
But at the same time, I know like if we slow down and like correct some of these behaviors or expectations, like it’s going to allow us to like just be more effective and efficient. But I feel like that’s such a hard mindset shift to make. I don’t know if you guys have any, like tips for the teachers and like the mindset side of things where it’s like, no, like, take the time to actually work through some of these things before you just like, you know, ignore them.

Sara
Because I think the easy thing is to ignore them, the hard thing is to like fix it. So I don’t know, if you have any like tips to like help the teacher make that mental shift?

Emily/Heidi
Well, I would say you’re taking a little bit of time now to save a lot of time later. Because all the times that you have to stop and correct them and get them back doing the things the way that you asked them to do originally the way you taught them to do it originally, all of those little moments, they add up to quite a lot of time, and a lot of interruptions to your school day.

Emily/Heidi
And so if you look at it more of an investment of time, to save a lot of time long term, I think that helps a little. And something we talk about all a lot on our podcast is giving a gift to your future self.

Sara
I love future self.

Emily/Heidi
Yes, we’re nicer to our future selves sometimes. So right now, do something right now that’s going to help that future you have an easier school day, by taking some time now to get things back where they need to be.

Emily/Heidi
I also think you were so tired in the middle of winter, like you’re just tired. So that’s part of the reason that like we start to let behavior slide and things get maybe a little out of control. But it takes so much more energy to like have to just play Whack a Mole. And I mean that in a very non violence, children with behavior problem, like I got to deal with that I got to do with that. I gotta deal with that. I gotta do that like that is going to drain you even faster.

Emily/Heidi
But if you just be like, Okay, we’re having this problem with the coats or homework not getting turned in or you know, fights at recess, whatever it is, if you just like take 20 minutes, and you just kind of like put in some energy there to shift the course. you’ve eliminated one of your biggest energy and time suckers right there.

Emily/Heidi
Like so again, that that sense of like your future self is going to have more energy for things like the test prep that has to come up and like managing all of the end of year stuff that’s starting to creep in even though it’s winter, you know, all of that is gonna take plenty of energy, you need to save it where you can.

Sara
I think that’s such a good perspective too just the whole, like, they’re both hard, right? Like, correcting classroom behaviors are hard in the middle of the year and like pausing and taking the time to like, make those shifts, but like, it’s just as equally hard and draining to like, constantly manage the small behaviors that are wrong.

Sara
So it’s like, choose your hard, but like one hard is going to have a better one hard is going to have a better return and outcome on your time than the other one. So I feel like that’s just such a good reminder. It’s like, yeah, changing behavior and classroom management in the middle of the year is hard.

Sara
But so is constantly reminding your students, you know, 100 million times to like, do the things that you’ve told them not to do? Like all year long. Exactly. Yeah. Such a good reminder.

Sara
Okay, you guys, when we were talking about this podcast, you guys had shared five guiding questions that teachers can ask themselves to really help them troubleshoot any tricky classroom management area. Can you share this with my audience?

Sara
I just thought they were such a good sort of like framework to think through how can you sort of like, you know, course correct these classroom management issues you might be experiencing in the middle of the year?

Emily/Heidi
Yeah. How about I will share each question and then Heidi can expound on it however, she wants to love that plan. We figured out these questions ourselves, when we were trying to think what what does a teacher need to do to fix things up? When they see the problem, what are the steps they should take?

Emily/Heidi
And so we tried to really break it down into almost like a flowchart of yes or no for each question. So the first question is, Do I have a clear vision of what should be happening with this procedure? Or transition? Or routine? Or, or whatever other thing you’re having issues with. Am I clear on that?

Emily/Heidi
So that maybe seems trivial because like, Oh, of course, I know. But sometimes we have an idea of how we think things should go when we’re maybe in the planning stages, like early in the school year, or before school even starts, like, Okay, this is how we’re gonna handle coming in from lunch.

Emily/Heidi
And then in practice, it’s just not working out the way we had envisioned it working out. So that’s, that’s a signal right there where we need to stop and be like, Okay, here’s what is happening, what do I want to see happening, what should be happening? Because if you are not clear on those steps, your kids cannot be clearer. You know, if you don’t have that vision, there’s no way your kids can figure it out.

Emily/Heidi
So you have to make sure that you are clear on exactly what you want to see happening in this moment. And then once you have a clear vision, you can use that to help you adjust your procedures. And maybe that’s all you needed to fix the problem was just to get clear on your vision. And then you could explain that to your kids.

Sara
I think it’s so funny, because I feel like every classroom management plan is like perfect on paper, right? Like, when you write it out, you’re like, This is beautiful. We’re gonna have a great year, and then like the kids show up, and you’re like, What was I thinking like, this is not, this is not working, you know.

Sara
The reality of it is is like you can have an idea in your head, but until you see it, and so it’s like, yeah, we’re in the middle of the year at what you thought was going to work maybe isn’t working. So like now that you know, your space know, your students like create that vision. So yeah, I feel like that’s such a good starting point, just like make sure you know that you’re really crystal clear on like how this is going to work before you like communicate it to your students.

Emily/Heidi
Right. And then after that, once you’re clear on that, if you’re still having problems, then you need to think, Okay, did I introduce this procedure properly at the beginning of the year, or whenever you introduced it?

Emily/Heidi
So we like to use a three step method to teach any procedure or routine anything where the kids need to follow steps. And our three steps are Tell, Try, and Tally. I think teachers naturally do a form of this, probably anytime they introduce procedures.

Emily/Heidi
So you start with tell, which is we lay out exactly what we want to see happen. We model it, we walk through it, we might have some student volunteers come up. We really belabor the point. Because we want it very clear.

Emily/Heidi
I think you reach a point where like, I shouldn’t have to tell kids how to like stand in line at the drinking fountain like or I shouldn’t have to tell kids to put the lids on the glue stick, but you absolutely do. If you are having problems, you have to address it. Even if you shouldn’t have to.

Sara
Also I remember what I moved from second grade to fourth grade, and the things that I assumed fourth graders either knew how to do or just would do, you know, like, like you said, like putting the cap on the glue stick putting the cap on the marker like pushing their chair and when they got up from their desk, I mean, all these little things. I’m like, Am I really having to like communicate that but it’s like, Yes, I am.

Sara
So let me over over communicate, which sometimes I feel like I do that with adults just because I’m like the teacher like wait a minute, hold on. I totally do that with adults. These are not my students. Like I can just, you know, bullet points or just really be clear like I know I’m not introducing a classroom procedure but it’s I feel like the teacher of me just doesn’t ever want to go away.

Emily/Heidi
So after you’ve told your steps, the next thing is to have your students try and so you know you walk through the class you have them walk through it, you address any like hiccups that are arising, point out things that are going well like that’s so powerful to be like, oh, did you notice this and this was great to doing all of this.

Emily/Heidi
You’re just kind of like acting like a sports caster in the most boring game ever of like, oh, notice how he walked over there. So yeah, so that’s our try and then we have the last step of tally, which means you have your students evaluate how did it go?

Emily/Heidi
Okay, these were going to be our steps for, you know, packing up at the end of the day, how well did you follow that? You know, give me a thumbs up if you remember to stack your chair or whatever. But the thing about tally is like, this is your ongoing process, this is going to stretch all year. So if you know you’re packing up at the end of the day, and the chairs aren’t stacked, like you need to, you’ve tallied this situation, and you have evaluated that this didn’t go well.

Emily/Heidi
So we’re gonna Hey, guys, hey, guys, check out the chairs. What’s going on here? How can we do this better? So tally, we tally in the moment, and then we’re gonna just keep track all year and correct as needed.

Sara
I love that I’m a sucker for like an acronym or a process or anything. So I love that like the three T’s the the tell, the try, and the tally. I think that’s super smart.

Emily/Heidi
And then after that, if you’re still having problems, you’re like, Okay, I know, we went through that whole thing really well together. But what’s the problem here? Maybe the problem is that you didn’t practice enough. So you need to ask yourself, did we practice this enough.

Emily/Heidi
And maybe that’s just where you need to get in there of having the kids try it again, we’re gonna walk through all the steps again. This is particularly true if it’s a routine that has multiple steps.

Emily/Heidi
So like coming in in the morning, and packing up the day, I think, or maybe two of the biggest ones, maybe going to lunch, those just have so many pieces. And they also have pieces that need to happen when the teacher is most likely distracted. Like you have stuff to you’re trying to do in the mornings, you have stuff you’re trying to get taken care of at the end of the day, you know, you’re trying to get other lunch stuff coordinated.

Emily/Heidi
So if the kids are having to do multiple procedures as part of a larger routine, you might need to practice this more than you think you should have to practice this.

Sara
Kind of like going back to this whole like we’re in the middle of the year, like do we really have to practice how to line up for lunch? But it’s like, if your students are giving you like signs and signals that they have forgotten, or they’re just not doing it correctly, then it’s like, yeah, the data and everything is indicating that you do need to practice it, you know, more than you think you do.

Sara
And I always think it’s like, you know, we have this idea going back to the whole, like, do we have a clear vision of like, what we want this to look like, like we have a clear vision of what we want our routines and expectations and procedures to look like but like our students aren’t inside our head, they can’t see what this whole process looks like.

Sara
Or, you know, they don’t even always understand, like, why we need to have a procedure for certain things like they don’t understand, you know, the whole, like, why we need to maintain order and all of that stuff, because they’re just looking at things through like their singular solo student lens.

Sara
And so I think we have to have them practice so much, because like, it needs to become routine and automatic, because they’re not the ones that’s dreaming up the routine. So like until it is automatic for them, like they just need to practice again and again and again. Even in February.

Emily/Heidi
Yes, even in February. So if you’ve answered all those questions, and you’re like, okay, yes, yes, yes, we’ve done all of this, then this question is very likely the one that is the problem. Which is, am I holding them accountable? Oh, yeah.

Emily/Heidi
Yeah, I think we all feel a little bit convicted by that one. Yeah. Just you know, because sometimes the teacher we are the weakest leak. Yes, of course it’s understandable. There’s just so much going on.

Emily/Heidi
I had I remember one of my professors say something like, when you’re teaching, like you’re just doing the things on the outside, you look like, okay, we’re doing digital it but on the inside your brain is on fire. And that just all day long, you’re keeping track of what 25 people are doing now and what they need to be doing in two minutes. You know.

Emily/Heidi
So there’s just so many things going on that it is tempting to just we’re gonna just start letting little things slide. I don’t want to have to dread. We’ll deal with that later today. Well, that, you know, starts to snowball. And then we’ve got real problems on our hands. So we have to hold ourselves accountable for holding our students accountable. And this is the hardest part, we’re not gonna lie like, this is the hardest part.

Sara
Well especially because like I was that teacher that at the start of the year, like we are following routines and procedures to a tee. And then it’s like, you know, as the year goes on, and kind of like what you were saying, Emily, where it’s like, oh, yeah, we’re really comfortable with each other now.

Sara
And you know, especially if we like we’re getting into our lessons, it’s like, oh, shoot, we’re like, late for lunch. Like, we don’t have time to do the routine, or it’s like, We’re late for dismissal. We don’t have time to like, do things correctly, because we just gotta like, get to where we’re going. I feel like I was always the worst that like holding myself accountable. So that way I could hold my students accountable.

Emily/Heidi
Exactly. It’s definitely the trickiest part, especially if you’ve reached a point where like, a few minor issues have become bad habits or just the norm in the classroom. And if that’s the case, you’re going to need some kind of like heavy duty intervention, and we call it shock and awe.

Sara
Tell me more.

Emily/Heidi
So the idea is that you need to disrupt the pattern of behavior, you need something big enough, that’s gonna help kids have a wake up call about what is happening, what needs to stop happening, and what they need to start doing.

Emily/Heidi
So I think of like, like, if you’re having issues with the we had a drinking fountain in our classroom, I don’t know how standard that is in every classroom. And some kids were just like, there’d be issues with the drinking fountain, they’d be putting things in the drinking fountain or like putting their miles on it, whatever it is like there.

Emily/Heidi
If I’m having problems with a drinking fountain, maybe the kids come the next day, and there’s a sign from the quote unquote, health department that has shut down the drinking fountain, right? And then the kids be like, Hey, what’s going on there, and then then you have your opportunity to address the issues.

Emily/Heidi
Here’s what I see happening, no more my friends. And then you can implement your tell try and tally, and set up your new procedure or review the steps to have the procedure, they’ve already learned how to course correct that.

Emily/Heidi
And commit to holding them accountable this time, if maybe you’ve slipped on holding them accountable in the past.

Sara
Well, I can see it’s like if the accountability is the thing that’s, you know, preventing the classroom management routine or expectation from working, then it’s like, you have to, you have to hold yourself accountable this next time.

Sara
Because otherwise, you’re just gonna get back to the same place, right? Like if you as the teacher aren’t changing your behaviors that like your classrooms behaviors aren’t actually going to change as well.

Emily/Heidi
Right. So then if you’re at this point, you’re like, look, I’m doing all these things, and I am being so consistent about holding them accountable. Why is this procedure not working?

Sara
That’s just like good luck for the end of the day, anything that they can do?

Emily/Heidi
Well, the last question is, maybe do I need to reevaluate this procedure? So maybe the problem is actually the procedure itself.

Emily/Heidi
So we reached that point, right, maybe, maybe it’s not the people involved, maybe it is the procedure itself, maybe like we have a plan at the beginning of the year, and then it is just not acting the way it needs to in the reality in the thick of day to day school life. So maybe your procedure needs to be tweaked.

Emily/Heidi
Maybe instead of having every kid, go pick up a whiteboard, you assigned five kids pass them on to the whole class, or maybe you need to, like line up outside a different door before you come in from recess. You know, really looking at is this procedure serving my students the way that I need it to? And then you can adjust from there.

Sara
Well, and I think too there, and I was guilty of this, again, it’s like when you’ve been in the classroom, and you’ve taught for so long, you can sometimes get in the bad habit of like, well, this is how I’ve always done it. Like, this has always been my end of day routine. This has always been my morning routine, like it’s worked every other year.

Sara
You know, but it’s just like, just because you’ve always done a routine a certain way doesn’t mean that like, that’s the best way or the only way or the way that your students are gonna, like benefit from the most. So I do love that like evaluation question where it’s like, okay, especially if you’re doing everything right. And you’ve gone through like the rest of these questions, it might just be time to like, put a new procedure in place.

Emily/Heidi
Even though it’s hard to do it, you feel like, No, this was a great procedure. But if it’s not serving your goals, you need a better one that will actually make your life easier.

Sara
And it might have been a great procedure for a season and we’re just entering a new season.

Emily/Heidi
Yeah, you’ve got new kids in the winter than you had in the fall like they have changed. That’s so true.

Sara
Well, I love these questions. And I just feel like these are such a helpful tool for teachers to just like, look at, look at the behavior management that’s going on in their classroom, or look at their systems, look at their routines, the expectations, and just really sort of like go through.

Sara
You know, because like you were saying, it’s like, you don’t always have to start over from scratch with a new routine if it’s just you need more practice, or you need to, like clarify the expectation. So hopefully, hopefully, teachers are feeling a little empowered that it’s like, okay, we don’t have to revamp everything, you just might need to practice some more, clarify some more, make sure that your vision is set.

Sara
But I am curious, you know, if there’s a teacher who’s listening to this podcast, and they’re like, shoot, my morning routine is messed up, my end of day routine is messed up, like, we’re not holding students accountable for you know, a lot of things and they’re just realizing that there are multiple parts of their classroom management structure that needs to be refined.

Sara
What tips do you have for teachers that feel like they’ve got multiple areas of their instructional day that they need to work on?

Emily/Heidi
Well, we actually do have a free resource to help teachers with this, where we break down every possible routine and procedure you probably need to do in a day. We’re just really good at getting into the minutiae of things. And so that’s what we did with procedures.

Emily/Heidi
So we got into every single question you need to ask yourself to decide what your procedure should look like. And that’s a free resource that we can send the link to you to share with your listeners. And that’s a good place to start. If you’re really feeling like I’m going to need to do a big reset here.

Emily/Heidi
And then you just might need to commit to guess what we’re going to take a week and for however much time of your day, you’re going to commit to just working on those routines and procedures and locking them up so that they’re working the way you need them to.

Emily/Heidi
Again, I know that feels so hard to do, and you’re like oh, I have a million things to do but it will pay off it will pay off and you just have to remind yourself that you are giving yourself a gift that will pay off and come next month you’ll be so glad you just took the time and did it now before it got any worse.

Sara
Yeah, the you in March and April will be glad that you like focused on these things now. That is awesome. Thank you for sharing that freebie. We’ll definitely link to that in the show notes.

Sara
And as we get ready to wrap up this episode, do you guys have any favorite like classroom management hacks or tips just like quick little things that you could share with my audience?

Emily/Heidi
I think our favorite hack, if you can call it that what we come back to a lot is prevent problems before they happen, right? Like you don’t have to manage behaviors if they don’t arise in the first place.

Emily/Heidi
So we talk a lot about like, how to streamline your procedures to prevent the issues from arising in the first place, how to set up your classroom to help minimize behavior, so that you can just save yourself the hassle of dealing with the effect if the problem never rises in the first place.

Sara
I love it who needs a classroom management hack if you have no problems?

Emily/Heidi
Right. That’s the goal.

Sara
Well I love all of these things. I also love to get my let my audience get a chance to get to know my guests on more of a personal level. So I’ve got a couple sort of rapid fire questions for y’all. If you’re up for it. Sure. Yeah. Well, first of all, I’d love to know from each of you, what do you guys just love most about working in the field of education?

Emily/Heidi
I feel like I just really loved having my own classroom and getting in there and just creating the environment that I wanted to have for those students. And maybe the environment I wish I had had at times as a student.

Emily/Heidi
There was just something magical to me of setting up my classroom for the year and I’m not even talking about the decor I’m talking about the feeling and the vibe and and the way we’re going to do things in the year, I just felt like that was such an exciting and exciting part of being a teacher was designing an amazing space for your class to be in, you know, and creating that classroom vibe.

Sara
That’s awesome. What about you, Heidi?

Emily/Heidi
Well, I agree with Emily. I love that sense of just taking like these little strangers and now we’re we’re making a whole community together. But as our experience in the education field has shifted, maybe a little bit where we don’t have our own direct students, I had not realized how passionate I was about helping teachers.

Emily/Heidi
Like I had no idea that this was something that was in me even but I love it so much. Like, I’m not directly teaching these students, but I’m hopefully helping impact them in positive ways. And maybe a larger reach than I could have had just with my own class.

Emily/Heidi
The goal is that we are helping lots of teachers elevate their procedure to make their jobs just a little bit easier and a little bit more effective. So they can love their jobs even more.

Sara
I love that. And I totally resonate with that. I mean, that’s why I’ve always sort of like any any move I’ve made in my career has always been like, Okay, we’re gonna have the biggest impact? I became a teacher because I love the idea of working with kids.

Sara
But like now that I support teachers full time, I’m like, wait a minute, this, this is such a great opportunityand space, because I’m still impacting students, but on a much greater scale. Yeah. Okay, what is your favorite book, movie or TV show that you have consumed in the past year?

Emily/Heidi
I think the book that I have loved most last year was the Anthropocene Reviewed by John Green. It wasn’t something I would have normally picked up and I listened to it. And it was so good. Like, I don’t know the last time I have finished a book and then immediately started it again. I just loved it so much.

Sara
Okay, I’ve not heard that title. But I’m like an avid reader. So I am for sure gonna add that to like my Goodreads list. And I’ll check it out.

Emily/Heidi
Yeah, it’s kind of different. It’s like a book of essays, but also Amazon reviews. And it’s also like John Green’s memoir, if you know Fault in Our Stars, he’s the author of that. So all just kind of rolled together. And it was so thoughtful and insightful and vulnerable. I loved it. So good. You have to tell me what you think.

Sara
For sure. Emily, what about you?

Emily/Heidi
So actually, the book that I loved the most this year, my favorite of everything I’ve read this year is What the Wind Knows by Amy Harmon. It’s a fiction book. And it involves some accidental time travel, which is Heidi’s greatest fear, so.

Emily/Heidi
it’s my greatest irrational fear.

Emily/Heidi
So so if that’s also your fear, just know that, but it just, I don’t even know how to describe it. I went into it thinking, I don’t know if I’m gonna like this. And I absolutely just loved that book. So if you’d like a good period fiction.

Sara
Fantastic. I have not heard of either of these. But I’m super excited to have some two new titles. And then last question, what is one place that you want to travel to in the next 10 years?

Emily/Heidi
Heidi used to travel all the time. And then it’s lately not much travel at all.

Emily/Heidi
No. Once you become self employed, it’s harder to like you don’t get me days. Yeah, absolutely. I think one place I would really love to go visit within the next 10 years, I’d love to go back to Belgium.

Emily/Heidi
I went there about 10 years ago, and I just fell in love. I just got a little taste of it. Figurative and literally, they sell waffles and fries on the street. Like what? So I would just love to go back and get to dig into more of that country.

Emily/Heidi
And I would really like to go to Scotland. Our grandmother, our almost 98 year old grandmother, is from Scotland. And I have never been. Heidi’s been but I haven’t and I just would really like to be able to go there and see see where she was raised and where some of our culture and family history comes from.

Sara
I love that. That’s awesome. Well, y’all will have to take those trips soon and then let us know how they are so we can you know, maybe add those to our own bucket list.

Sara
Well, this was great. Such a helpful conversation. I seriously am so grateful that you guys are willing to come on and share these great classroom management tips with my audience. If my audience would like to connect with you after this interview, where can they find you?

Emily/Heidi
They can find us at @2ndstorywindow on Instagram and that’s what the two in the name and we are on Facebook. We have a Facebook group for teachers called the Teacher Approved Facebook group.

Emily/Heidi
Our podcast is not second story window our podcast is Teacher Approved. So we’re in both spots.

Sara
I always love sharing other podcasts with my audience because I’m like, Okay, if you’re a podcast listener, and you want more education podcasts, definitely go check out Heidi and Emily’s podcast as well.

Sara
We will link to all of those and your freebie in the show notes. So my listeners go check that out so you can take advantage of that free resource and connect with them as well. And again, thank you so much. This was such a great conversation. I really appreciate you guys coming on today.

Emily/Heidi
Thanks for having us. This has been wonderful.